Family Secrets, Catharsis, & the Art of the Podcast
Podcaster/playwright/poet Karri Offstein Rosenthal discusses her new podcast miniseries HELD
A brief preamble before today’s feature: monthly and annual paid subscriptions to Bookish are 20% off through August 15. 📗
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Although podcasts have been around since 2004, during the pandemic I noticed a marked increase in the variety and number of shows on offer on Apple’s podcast platform. Those of us who are fans of the format could doubtless spend entire days listening to our favorite shows. (My go-tos are Smartless, The NYT Daily, You Must Remember This & Mind Body Green.)
If you’re a committed podcast fan, you’ve probably thought about creating one too. If you’ve gone on to do it, you know first-hand how much time, energy, and technical savvy are required to see it to fruition. Discoverability is probably even more of a challenge—how to distinguish your voice and creative work in a field where more than 4 million podcasts are vying for listeners’ time and attention?
Unless you’re already famous like Will Arnett, Jason Bateman and Sean Hayes—Smartless’ hosts and creators—it’s likely to be a steep uphill trudge to attract fans. Some podcasters luck out with the right listener(s) at the right time promoting their show, but most have to build an audience painstakingly, one person, one download, at a time.
Today’s post features an interview with an enterprising DIY podcaster, Karri Offstein Rosenthal, who has now produced two podcasts—one on her own, one with a partner and cohost. Karri and I went to graduate school together in the ‘90s, both of us poetry MFAs at Indiana University-Bloomington. I’ve been a fan of her work since then and have greatly admired the creative leaps she’s taken as a poet, playwright, screenwriter, and podcaster.
And now…our recent conversation, which we conducted via email.
Christine S: Held is your second podcast (the first, Midnight Ramblings, you cohosted with Jenni Silberstein, an old friend of yours and a licensed therapist)--how did you get into podcasting & how did you figure out how to put a podcast together and get it uploaded to the platforms where we go to find them?
Karri O R: My husband, Joe Rosenthal, has a podcast called Music Defender. I saw him bring it to life from the ground up. So I knew it was possible. Then I said, “Dude, how did you do that?” And he was patient enough to show me. From there it was trial and error—and I mean a lot of error!
CS: A couple of technical questions before we get to the subject matter of Held. Which platform do you use to record and assemble your episodes? What kind of audio program do you use, e.g. GarageBand?
KO-R: I use Zoom for recording interviews, GarageBand for editing, and Simplecast for publishing the podcast.
CS: Do you use a podcast-grade mic and record in a soundproof room?
KOR: No mic and no soundproofing. When I used a microphone, it was capturing too many sounds (my air conditioning, the dog, etc.) Also, I found that with Zoom, sound levels were more consistent between me and the people I interviewed [without a mic]. I’m sure if I knew what I was doing that wouldn’t be the case. But I don’t know what I’m doing.
CS: Held tells a deeply personal story about a close family member who gave up a baby for adoption in the 1980s. What led you to decide to turn this story into a podcast?
KOR: Now we are onto one of my favorite subjects—my sister-in-law, Angie. Let's just say, since she’s been in my family (for over twenty years), she has been such a “helper” in my life. For example, she stayed with me for three weeks after each of my two children were born. Now, having the perspective of her past, which I did not at the time, that is no small thing. So when Angie’s secret came out, she was understandably coming up from an extremely difficult time. And as part of that, she and the others involved wanted to document this story just for the family, really. Angie also felt strongly that she didn't want to have any more secrets. Angie asked if I would help her do that. I can only tell you that the opportunities to be there for her are few and far between. I was thrilled and excited to do it. It can also be said, I am very nosy, so the project suited me.
CS: Held’s narrative structure is non-linear, i.e. you disclose some key information later than if you told the story chronologically--was this something that evolved over time?
KOR: Absolutely. I did over thirty hours of interviews. We tried many iterations. We enlisted my husband, brother, family, and some wonderful friends to give us feedback. And feedback they gave! Needless to say, we listened. We felt free to try lots of different ways. I mean, in truth, the only thing that limited us was the time and storage it took. Once we did that, we asked folks to listen again. And finally, we settled on the podcast as it exists today. We landed here, because with all those comments in mind, we felt it was the clearest and most interesting way to tell the story.
CS: What were one or two of the biggest surprises for you while you were interviewing subjects and producing Held?
KOR: Well, love is a funny thing when you’re interviewing. That’s why I wanted to be fully transparent about how I feel about Angie–I’m obsessed, as the “influencers” like to say, completely biased. It felt imperative to get that out there. And Angie and I both felt strongly that we wanted to tell the truth, but we also needed to consider the feelings of everyone involved, most especially those with whom Angie was forging new relationships. The surprise was that I think we were able to marry those two ends of the spectrum. I definitely was concerned we would not be able to be successful in that.
CS: What has been the response to Held since it became available to listeners?
KOR: Angie’s response, at least, has morphed and flowed from utter terror in getting the story out there, to relief, to real satisfaction that this story that she guarded with her life, literally, is touching and helping and healing people. That was not her intention when she first asked me to help her. That said, the emails and texts and phone calls have been deeply moving and certainly healing for her. But it does feel important to say that having the podcast out in the world, has also been very difficult for her.
CS: What are the biggest challenges of creating and disseminating a podcast?
KOR: I mean, creating and disseminating the podcast! It was a ton of work. Joyous work at the end of the day, but work nonetheless. Putting in all that effort, full-well knowing that no matter how good it might end up, there really may be no one listening at the end of the day. It felt necessary to adjust my priorities, anyway, and focus on Angie and telling the story the best way we possibly could. We both tried, and did love, the experience that making this podcast together afforded us. Angie and I both feel grateful. And we seem to be getting a little lucky on the listening front. We were in the top 25 of Apple’s documentary podcast chart for at least one day. So that’s something.
CS: Lastly, what's next for you--a podcast, a new play, poetry?
KOR: Angie and I have bandied about the idea of making this story into a play or screenplay. We have some ideas-a-brewing. I guess time will tell.
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Creator bio: Originally from St. Louis, Karri Offstein Rosenthal attended UW-Madison where she earned her BA in Cultural Anthropology, Creative Writing, and Children’s Theater. She received her MFA from Indiana University-Bloomington. She is the author of three plays: By the Light of the Bathroom Stall, Scent Theory, and Broken Water, which was presented as part of the Lab@Piven and the Oil Lamp Theater Play Reading Series. She is the writer, host, and producer of The Midnight Ramblings and Held: a Podcast-Mini-Series. Karri currently lives with one deeply funny husband, two unpredictable children, and one exceedingly cute toy poodle in Glencoe, Illinois.
Postscript: I'll be teaching a 6-week, online flash fiction course for Stanford Continuing Studies from Oct. 9-Nov. 13. Registration opens Aug. 21. Live weekly meetings on Zoom on Mondays, 6:30-9:20 PM PT. More info here.
One bit of flapdoodle: a short “If My Book” column that I wrote last year for my novel in memos Please Be Advised is up on Monkeybicycle.
Lastly, a new Substack newsletter recommendation:
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What a great post, Christine! And such a lovely surprise at the end--thank you so much for recommending On Being and Timelessness!
Great post. You made me want to listen to HELD--and I hardly ever listen to podcasts.